Ну вот и всё :)
Эти Форумы Лотоса завершают своё существование, как и было запланировано Новые Форумы Лотоса ждут всех и каждого. Новый подход, новые идеи, новые горизонты.
Если хотите продолжать старые темы, то открывайте их на новом форуме под тем же названием и оставляйте в первом сообщении ссылку на старую тему.
open Постоянный участникСообщения: 833
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Откуда: г. Москва Профиль Карма: +33/–15
Уважаемый Зачесун!
Не верьте всему, что "СКАЗАНО БЫЛО" теми, кого обвиняют во лжи и сокрытии важной информации. И не путайте мягкое с теплым. Дело не было ПРОИГРАНО, судебный иск был отозван до начала судебных слушаний. И не главный фигурант сознался, что хотел оклеветать, а свидетель со стороны ответчика. Может быть, вам стоит внимательно прочитать эти материалы на английском, а то вы похоже опираетесь исключительно на тот материал, который так неаккуратно перевел Кирилл Бородин и выставил на форуме Сатья Саи Ру.
И не думайте, что если вы перейдете на личности и найдете у open'а какие-то изъяны, то тем самым опровергнете факты.
open Постоянный участникСообщения: 833
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Откуда: г. Москва Профиль Карма: +33/–15
Для тех, кто понимает английский язык, есть возможность посмотреть видео интервью с немецким последователем Сатья Саи Бабы, Ульрихом Циммерманом, который подробно рассказывает о своих сексуальных отношениях с "Пурна Аватаром". Найти этот материал можно через www.exbaba.com.
open Постоянный участникСообщения: 833
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Откуда: г. Москва Профиль Карма: +33/–15
Кажется Stalcer немного не понял. Речь идет не об интервью с бывшим американским последователем Алайей Рам из фильма Би-Би-Си "Секретный Свами", а о записанном на видео интервью с бывшим немецким последователем Ульрихом Циммерманом, где он рассказывает о своем опыте орального секса с Сатья Саи Бабой и о многом другом.
Кто то бы у Сатья сай бабы?
Я раньше ходила в его "храм".
Я не знаю если вы действительно читали Ошо, но Ошо говорил что Сатья Сай баба шарлатан. А сама я видело видео на интернете как Сатья Сай баба из рукава вытаскивает "подарок". То есть его магия не настоящяя. А потом никакой просветлённый Мастер, гуру, духовный лидер не будет заниматься такими вещами как магия для показухи, что бы шокировать публику. Это предательство по отношению к Богу, к Истине. Никто этого не делал, включая Сай Бабу, кто действительно был просветлённым человеком.
Ошо говорил что у Сатьи были "силы", но потом они ушли и теперь приходится использавать рукав (я видео сама видела).
Q: THE HARE KRISHNA MOVEMENT HAS NOT BEEN EXPELLED FROM THE WEST. OTHER
INDIAN SPIRITUAL LEADERS HAVE NOT BEEN DENOUNCED IN THE WEST. WHY ARE YOU
THE ONLY ONE TO SUFFER THIS PERSECUTION?
A: For the simple reason that the Hare Krishna movement has never said a
single word against Christ.
On the contrary, the Hare Krishna movement has been telling the West that
Christ is only another name of Krishna. Naturally, people are happy, there
is no problem. Krishnamurti never condemned, never criticized, any
religion
by name. This was pure politics.
Vivekananda praised Christianity as much as he praised anything else, so
why should they be against him?. But I simply say the truth, I am not
saying what you want to hear. I am saying what is the reality. I
cannot say
that Jesus Christ walked on water -- that is nonsense. If it is true, then
the pope should at least walk on a swimming pool -- being the
representative of Jesus Christ.
They say Jesus Christ is born out of a virgin girl. This they call
morality. Just the other day I was reading a joke: A young girl, seventeen
years old, became pregnant. The mother was shocked. She took her to the
doctor, the doctor examined the girl. The girl asked the doctor, "I have
never met any man. No man has ever touched me, never kissed me -- how
can I
be pregnant?"
The doctor went to the window, opened the window, and looked at the stars;
a few minutes passed. The mother said, "What is the matter? What are you
doing there?"
He said, "This has happened only once, when Jesus Christ was born, but
then
a star appeared. I am looking for the star again. Without a man, how can
this girl become pregnant? And I don't see any star, I don't see any three
wise men from the East coming to worship."
Scientifically, it is so absurd. I have even challenged the pope that I am
ready to argue with him in the Vatican amongst his people. He cannot prove
a single thing about Christ. His whole religion stands on superstition:
Jesus touches people and they are healed, he makes dead people come alive.
Just think of a person today who makes dead people alive, touches people
and they are healed, walks on water... will he not be the topmost
news? But
in the contemporary literature of that time Jesus' name is not even
mentioned -- except in the Christian BIBLE. No other writing even mentions
his name, such a man who turns water into wine; although that is not a
miracle, it is a crime.
Krishnamurti or Maharishi Mahesh Yogi or Yogananda or Vivekananda... none
of them touched these sore spots, that's why they have not been condemned.
And this is the whole of Christianity. We have known higher religions, we
don't depend on Jesus walking on water to be religious. Otherwise, what
would have happened to Gautam Buddha? He never walked on water. -- What
would have happened to Krishna? He never walked on water. These people
never raised dead people back to life. If Jesus is the criterion of
religion then all religions are meaningless. But Jesus is not the
criterion.
He is claiming that he is the only begotten son of God. As far as I am
concerned, I have been telling the West that Jesus is a crackpot.
Naturally
they are offended. Why should God create only one son? Since eternity he
has been trying and he has been able to create only one son? and here even
Indian beggars go on creating sons every year. And the way he creates his
son is not moral, it is absolutely immoral. Somebody else's wife... you
just try to make her pregnant and you will know whether it is morality or
it is immorality.
In the Christian trinity there is no space for a woman. There is God the
father, God the son, and the Holy Ghost. Who is this Holy Ghost guy,
man or
woman? It seems he functions both ways -- perhaps he is a bisexual.
To see things as they are is one thing. I am not interested in convincing
anybody, I am simply interested in bringing the truth to people, and truth
hurts. Lies are very sweet. They can be made sweeter, because you
create them.
Who are the three wise men who came to Jerusalem from the East to
celebrate
Jesus? Their names are not mentioned, because even today no truly wise man
will accept Christianity as a religion.
I have heard about one famous Japanese sage, Rinzai. A high Christian
priest went to Rinzai with the BIBLE to convert him. He opened it to the
Sermon on the Mount, which is the only beautiful chapter in the BIBLE,
otherwise the BIBLE is one of the most pornographic books in the whole
word. Five hundred solid pages of pornography. If it is called the HOLY
BIBLE, then what is unholy?
He opened it to the Sermon on the Mount, he read two lines; Rinzai said,
"Stop. Sometime in the future this man will become a buddha, but not now."
The first two lines were, "Blessed are the poor because they shall inherit
the kingdom of God," and "A camel can pass through the eye of a
needle, but
a rich man cannot pass through the gates of heaven."
At this point Rinzai said, "Stop."
If poverty is a blessing then we should spread poverty. Then the more poor
the world is, the more blessed. Then more people will be in heaven. If
richness is such a sin that, `the camel can pass through the eye of a
needle but a rich man cannot pass through the gates of heaven', then all
rich people should distribute their riches and become poor beggars.
This is not religion, this is sheer politics -- a consolation for the
poor,
"Don't be worried, it is only a question of a few years and you will be in
the presence of God." And an effort to prevent revolution -- "Don't be
angry about the rich men. They are going to suffer in eternal hell."
Remember the phrase `eternal hell'. No other religion of the world
believes
in eternal hell. How many sins can you commit in one life? Christianity
believes in only one life. How many sins can you commit? Even if you start
committing from the very first day you are born, and until the last breath
you go on committing sins: don't eat, don't sleep, don't do anything, only
commit sin. Even then eternal punishment will not be the right judgment.
One of the most important philosophers of this age, Bertrand Russell, born
a Christian, wrote a book called, WHY I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN. One of his
reasons was, "I have committed sins and I have dreamt of committing sins.
If they both are joined together, the hardest judge cannot sentence me to
more than four and a half years of jail. But eternal hell? no exit? Once
you go into hell you will remain there forever?" These are stupid things
with no logic behind them.
I have been condemned because I believe there are two types of people in
the world; one which wants that the truth should always be behind him, and
the other which wants that he should always be behind the truth. I belong
to the second category. The names that you have mentioned belong to the
first category. And that is the difference between a mystic and a
politician.
It hurts, because from the very childhood you have been brought up with a
certain way of thinking. Jesus is crucified -- just think -- a man who
brings people alive after four days of death! And killed by his own
people... because he was a Jew, remember, he never was a Christian, he
never heard the word 'Christian'. He was never known as Christ in his own
times because the word 'Christ' is a Greek word. Hebrew has no word like
'Christ' or 'Christian'. And Jesus was absolutely uneducated, he had no
knowledge even of Hebrew. He spoke a small local dialect -- Aramaic.
He was
born a Jew, he lived as a Jew, he died as a Jew.
The boy was doing great because he died when he was only thirty-three.
Jews
would have hailed him as God. If you can hail a Satya Sai Baba just
because
he can produce stupid things, Swiss watches or a holy ass, and you can
worship him as God... then Jesus has really done miracles -- if he
actually
did them.
Jews would have respected him forever. But they crucified him. Not
only did
they crucify him, but on that day, three persons were condemned to be
crucified. And it was the convention that every year, before the Jewish
holidays began, the crucifixion would happen and the Jews were then
given a
chance to pardon one of these three condemmed persons.
Judea was under the rule of Rome. The viceroy of Judea was a Roman,
Pontius
Pilate. He hoped that they would ask to pardon Jesus because he was
innocent, he had never done any harm to anybody. He talks nonsense, he
looks like a clown, he talks like a madman saying that he is the only
begotten son of God, but this is not harmful and these are not crimes. At
the most, he needs some psychiatric treatment, but not crucifixion.
Pontius
was thinking that the Jews would ask for Jesus because the other two
persons were confirmed criminals; but the Jews said that Barabbas
should be
released. Barabbas had murdered seven people and had committed every crime
that is possible to man.
Pontius Pilate could not believe that they were asking for Barabbas, and
not for Jesus. Can you believe? A man who has done only good, healed
people, raised the dead, had never even been charged for speeding because
he was only riding on a donkey his whole life!.
I cannot conceive that the miracles claimed about Jesus are true; they are
all false and fictitious and created. And now, even Christianity and the
great Christian theologians are having conferences all over the world
that,
"If we can get rid of these miracles it will be good, because for the
future intelligent people these miracles will be barriers. In the past
they
proved him to be a god, but in the future they will prove him to be, at
most, a magician." But if you take away all the miracles of Jesus then
nothing is left.
In the East we have known Gautam Buddha, we have known Mahavira, we have
known the seers of the UPANISHADS who have taken flights -- ultimate
flights, into human consciousness. But the names you are talking about
have
been trying to put Upanishadic seers, Gautam Buddha, Mahavira, in the same
category as Jesus. Jesus belongs to the category of Satya Sai Baba -- not
more than that; both are fake.
And there has never been any resurrection. I have seen the grave of Jesus
in Kashmir. He never died on the cross, it was a conspiracy.
The Crucifixion was on a Friday; starting on Saturday for three days Jews
would stop all work for Passover. So Friday was chosen by Pontius Pilate,
and he delayed the crucifixion as long as he possibly could. And you
should
remember a scientific fact: that the Jewish crucifixion takes at least
forty-eight hours for a person to die because he is not hung by the neck,
he is nailed to the cross by the hands and the feet, so drop by drop the
blood goes out. It takes a healthy man forty-eight hours to die, and Jesus
was only thirty-three -- perfectly healthy. He could not have died in six
hours, nobody has ever died that way in six hours. But because
Friday's sun
was setting, he had to be brought down and for three days all work had to
stop. This was the conspiracy.
He was taken from the cave, he escaped, and he lived in India in Kashmir.
What you see in Pundit Jawaharlal Nehru's nose, Indhira Gandhi's nose is
not very strange -- they are Jewish. Moses died in Kashmir, Jesus also
died
in Kashmir after living a long life of one hundred and twelve years. I
have
been to his grave and it is still being taken care of by a Jewish family.
That is the only grave in Kashmir which does not face towards Mecca; all
the other graves are Mohammedan. Mohammedan graves are made so that the
head is directed towards Mecca.
And the inscription on the grave, in Hebrew, is clear. The name you have
been accustomed to, Jesus, was not his name; that is his name in
Greek. His
name was Joshua and it is written still on the grave that "Joshua, a great
teacher of religion, travelled from Judea, lived here, died at the age of
one hundred and twelve years, and lies here".
But it is strange, I have talked all over the West, but not a single
Western Christian is ready to come to see the grave, because that will
spoil their whole theory of resurrection. I have asked them, "If he was
resurrected, then when did he die? You have to prove that." If after the
crucifixion he was resurrected, then he must either have died or he must
still be around. -- They don't have any description of his death.
I was condemned because I was simply saying what is absolutely logical,
scientific, rational. The people you are talking about were not interested
in truth, they were interested in saying things to please others. To me
that is how the politician's mind is.
From the very beginning, as soon as the child is born, he becomes a
politician. He does not want to smile at his mother but he smiles.
There is
no smile in his heart but he knows that a smile pays. He smiles at the
father, although he has no proof that he is his father. From that moment a
man starts learning politics -- do what people like. It is a very strange
world... here leaders are followers of their own followers.
I am not a leader, I am simply a thinker. And I will live as a thinker to
the very last moment of my life.
I have informed Ronald Reagan not to waste half a million dollars on
killing me -- just give half a million dollars to my work and I will leave
my body myself. I have not paid a single rupee for my body and one day I
will die and nobody will pay a single rupee for it. Half a million dollars
is a perfectly good price. But why give it to somebody else and put him
into trouble? I am ready to die, just give half a million dollars to my
work; and it is negotiable!.
-- from The Last Testament, Vol 6, ch 5
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